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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Gas Prices
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Date:
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11/22/2008 6:50:18 PM
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I posted a few weeks ago that gas could hit $1.50 a gallon in a few months. That was when it was still over $2 but had come down. I can not believe the decline. Today in Gwinnett county north of Atlanta I filled up at a QT for $1.59 a gallon. With oil now forecast to hit $30 a barrel, gas could actually go as low as $1.10 a gallon.
Now would be the time to increase drilling and bringing new capacity on line so as the economy turns around and demand increases .... oil will rise as fast as it has fallen. Obama does not want more drilling. In fact when he was asked about gas when it was $4 a gallon he said he wished the increase was more gradual .... not that he wanted it lower. He forgets when energy prices rise it is just like a tax and hurts lower and middle class the most ... the people he claims to care about.
Well Bush will leave office with gas lower than when he took office .... so now the increases are woned by Obama. Lets see if everyone says he has the oil companies in his pocket and that is why prices rise.
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| Name: |
Mack
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| Subject: |
Nope, Not Gonna' Happen
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Date:
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11/22/2008 7:31:25 PM
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One more time. We do not learn very well.
The Pain of $4.00 a gallon was too brief. It did not hurt enough for the PEOPLE of the US to demand an alternative, or the legislative support to produce it.
Wait 12- 18 months. The price of oil will be right back to $120- 180 per barrel. And the pump price will be $6.00 per gallon.
My point is, yes, increase Domestic supply of oil for the short term. Short term.
Then, shower Money onto any concern that can demonstrate a reasonable alternative to "Pumping Gasoline into a car".
IMHO
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Pain of $4/gallon gas???
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Date:
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11/23/2008 7:59:30 PM
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Tell me you don't actually want to go back to $4/gallon gasoline just so we can justify the pursuit of alternative fuels. I am all for alternative fuels when the free markets dictate their viability. But right now we have an economy that is very dependent on petroleum products. And that doesn't just mean gasoline or diesel. Petroleum products are used in a tremendous number of consumer products and short-term increases in these prices negatively impacts us all. It impacts businesses that either see their cost of feedstock/raw materials rise above the prices for the products they manufacture causing loss of profits and reduction in business activity (i.e., loss of jobs). Average folks are impacted by rises in energy costs that they have less control over, like heating oil or natural gas.
It is both silly and destructive to take the Obama approach....the only problem with $4 gas is how quiickly it got there. Go to Europe where taxes makes gasoline artifically high. Do you want to trade their economy for ours? I know I wouldn't. And if you do you might want to do a little research on income, unemployment, standard of living, etc. and you will see why our system is significantly better.
There is a reasonable price for petroleum products based on supply and demand and the value of the dollar and wishing for higher prices to pursue some artificial goal of alternative sources of energy makes no sense. Its like wanting to plow under a field of corn so you can grow wheat.
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| Name: |
Mack
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| Subject: |
You missed my Point..
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Date:
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11/24/2008 11:07:05 AM
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I do not want $6 at the pump, nor do I want to hurt anyone's oil-related business or job.
What I also do not want is to wait 30-50 years after gas is market priced at $12 a gallon to at least get serious about alternative fuels.
What would happen to the supply/demand/price model if there was a 40% drop in demand worldwide because automobiles/trucks/airplanes don't need it? Would'nt all those other petro-based products see a cost drop also?
My point was not political. My point was NOT to stop using oil at all. My point is that it makes sense to me that serious research toward some alternatives to oil are already overdue, and by waiting for market forces to dictate a starting point is silly and shortsighted. This oil stuff has caused us terrible grief in the last 40 years, and sticking our head in the Middle East's sand will not work long term.
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| Name: |
au67
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You missed my Point..
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Date:
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11/24/2008 11:20:54 AM
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Just an opinion, but as long as there is crude in the ground no one is gong to invest the capital required for development of alternative energy...the economics won't be there.
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| Name: |
Mack
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You missed my Point..
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Date:
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11/24/2008 11:57:32 AM
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Yep, you are probably right about the money. But,
What if we skimmed off say, $200 Billion, from the current bailouts, use half of that to fund people working out of their garages (remember Bill Gates/Apple?) on an alternative, and offer the other $100 Billion as a Finders Fee to anyone who could bring a viable product to market in about 15 years?
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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I did miss the point..sorry
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Date:
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11/25/2008 2:33:53 PM
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And I don't disagree with you that we will eventually need to find alternative sources of energy. I guess the real question is more philosophical than political and that is, "What is the best mechanism for finding that alternative and when?" You seem to want the government to take the lead in this effort and in this you are certainly not alone. Another view is that artificially high oil prices will drive the need for alternatives in the free markets. But they already have artificially high prices in Europe and they are no closer to alternatives there than here and at what cost? So you have to ask yourself, what cost are we (Americans) willing to bear in order to obtain this idealized goal of alternative energy? Despite all our warts I would not trade our economic engine for Europe's!
I am a free market guy in the mold of Fredric Bastiat and I have total confidence in the ingenuity of the markets to solve a problem to the extent that the underlying economics drive the need for a solution. I completely reject the concept of artificially creating the right economic conditions through the use of government power in the form of taxation, artificial constraints on supply or other schemes. That always has unintended, negative consequences and has never been successful. It will also reduce our overall standard of living which is maximized by optimal use of our resources (intellectual, natural and otherwise).
My preference would be for government to provide limited funding for the underlying basic research (which is already being done) while leaving the markets alone (which is at risk given the current makeup of Congress). As economic conditions justify the investment then private entities will provide the financial and intellectual horsepower necessary to develop and bring alternative energy sources to the markets. If you look at our history (post-industrial revolution) this has always worked and is entirely consistent with the fundamental nature of man.
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| Name: |
Mack
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| Subject: |
Hey, MartiniMan...
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Date:
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12/1/2008 7:34:18 PM
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Not in favor of any government anywhere getting control of a bucket full of money to solve a problem. Money is GONE, and the problem is left over for the next administration.
And, No, I am not necessarily a fan of Europe's financial/social agenda. But, I truly love their history, their culture, the evolution from Them to Us in the U.S., and their low rate of Heart Disease. Gotta' be a reason??
At What Cost to Americans for an Alternative Fuel Source for vehicles? How about $700 Billion that we, Americans, are about to spend to BailOut a bunch of "Gamblers" in the Banking, Real Estate, Automotive, etc, etc industry because:
THEY GAMBLED AND LOST.
But, we Americans are going to approve it, and the Bad Guys are gonna' win again. We are gonna' pick up the tab for POOR BUSINESS DECISIONS.
I ain't a student of Mr. Bastiat. I am an intern (and still learning) of Grandpa who always said "If you ain't got it , don't spend it" Or "Plan ahead for a Bad Crop". Or, "Don't trust any man with a weak handshake".
Our Business Culture today is Short Term at best. Bad, Bad, very Bad for my children.
Some day (after I am gone from the planet) the oil supply will be compromised by supply problems, terrorists, ecology, prices, etc, etc. Short Term thinking and planning will absolutely kill us as a nation.
The best Brain Power in the world is in the U.S. I just want somebody, government, private enterprise, whomever, to at least start to look into alternatives to a "GAS PUMP" at your local BP station.
Short Term Planning for a Long Term Fuel Crunch is going to be NASTY.
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